[ 本帖最后由 夏雨 于 2024-2-27 17:36 编辑 ]
在国际刑事法院发出对普京的逮捕令后，普京非常需要朋友。他显然希望中俄无上限的“联盟”关系......能够转化为经济和军事支持，帮助俄罗斯应对制裁引起的短缺。中国有更大的目标：不亚于重新平衡全球地缘政治。所以我们要问： "中国是乌克兰战争的赢家？中俄无上限的联盟关系是平等的伙伴关系吗？"
德媒--中国是乌克兰战争的赢家吗
SubiPan
5小时前
I’d say that Russia-China relationship is that of equals, at least as of now. China needs Russian natural resources, Russia needs Chinese economic support. Both need help militarily from each other - Russians are far ahead in submarine technology, Chinese are ahead in drones. Both need to build lot of infrastructures such as semiconductor manufacturing tools, commercial aerospace supply chains, physical roads and bridges etc. It’s a win-win. However, it might change in future.
我想说的是，至少从目前来看，俄中关系是平等的。中国需要俄罗斯的自然资源，俄罗斯需要中国的经济支持。双方在军事上都需要对方的帮助--俄罗斯人在潜艇技术方面遥遥领先，中国人在无人机方面领先。双方都需要建立大量的基础设施，如半导体制造工具、商业航空航天供应链、实体道路和桥梁等。这是一个双赢的局面。然而，这在未来可能会改变。
warset
5小时前（修改过）
China doesn’t necessarily want to win, but China definitely wants the US hegemony to lose.
中国不一定想赢，但中国肯定希望美国的霸权主义失去。
Cin Peace
5小时前
The cooperation between China and Russia is way beyond the war and changing the world order. It is also about long term support of each other. China could secure the need of food and energy. Russia could develop and transform to a country that don't mainly rely on resources. It is a win-win, no nonsense view of who is junior or not.
中国和俄罗斯之间的合作远远超出了战争和改变世界秩序的范围。这也是对彼此的长期支持。中国可以保证粮食和能源的需求。俄罗斯可以发展并转变为一个不主要依赖资源的国家。 这是一个双赢的局面，没有谁是谁非的废话。
TheLastBison
5小时前
No one wins the Ukraine war. Only question is who loses more. I think the developing world is walking up to the difference between trade and tribute. Russia's isolation will not last forever if anything if China does win more allies/trade partners, the fear of China will convince Europe and perhaps the US to take a second look at Russia. Venezuela is a perfect example of the policy above.
没有人赢得乌克兰战争。 唯一的问题是谁损失更多。 我认为发展中国家正逐渐意识到贸易和贡品之间的区别。 如果中国确实赢得更多盟友/贸易伙伴，俄罗斯的孤立不会永远持续下去，对中国的恐惧将说服欧洲，或许还有美国重新审视俄罗斯。 委内瑞拉是上述政策的一个完美例子。
Luis Villafane
6小时前（修改过）
In the West we like a lot to point the asymmetry in economic, technological, and other metrics of power between China and Russia but the reality is that, as an important Russian academic (Dmitry Suslov) said some time ago: “the asymmetry is no a problem as long as China keep showing respect and mindfulness of Russia’s long term core interests.”
在西方，我们很喜欢指出中国和俄罗斯之间在经济、技术和其他权力指标上的不对称性，但现实是，正如一位重要的俄罗斯学者（Dmitry Suslov）前段时间所说的： "只要中国一直对俄罗斯的长期核心利益表示尊重和关注，这种不对称就不是问题。"
If alliances were only made between equals, I guess Europe would not be an ally of the United States because the reality is that there is also a very marked asymmetry between the US and Germany or the US and Spain or any of the European countries and the US. Finally, all alliances are relationships of convenience. No country allyes with another for fun or because it loves the other so much, but because it hopes to derive some benefit from it, be it military, economic, political, or any combination thereof.
如果联盟只是在平等的人之间建立，我想欧洲不会成为美国的盟友，因为现实是美国和德国或美国和西班牙或任何一个欧洲国家和美国之间也存在着非常明显的不对称性。最后，所有的联盟都是便利关系。没有一个国家与另一个国家结盟是为了好玩或因为它非常爱对方，而是因为它希望从中获得一些利益，无论是军事、经济、政治，还是其中的任何组合。
The reason it's so hard for Europeans to understand that is because you forgot how to think in realpolitik terms: "We have no eternal allies and we have no perpetual enemies". Lord Palmerston, England's Foreign Secretary (1848)
欧洲人之所以很难理解这一点，是因为你们忘记了如何从现实政治的角度思考问题： "我们没有永远的盟友，我们也没有永远的敌人"。帕默斯顿勋爵，英国外交大臣（1848年）
ADITYA KUMAR
5小时前
China and Russia relation is not equal but US and Germany relation is equal
At some stage there must be a limit on hypocricy otherwise I will die due to continues laughing lol
中国和俄罗斯的关系是不平等的，但美国和德国的关系是平等的。
在某个阶段，虚伪必须有一个限度，否则我就会因为持续的笑声而死亡。哈哈~~
Elangbam
5小时前
I guess the only difference between Russia China partnership and that of America EU junior partnership is Russia is making its own independent decision policy based on what Kremlin thinks is in Russia's best interest while in America EU junior partnership Americans make every decision on behalf of EU
我想，中俄伙伴关系与美国欧盟初级伙伴关系之间的唯一区别是，俄罗斯根据克里姆林宫认为符合俄罗斯最佳利益的做法做出自己的独立决策，而在美国欧盟初级伙伴关系中，美国人代表欧盟做出每一个决定。
Commie
5小时前
After empire falls, all the countries once it dominated would jump on you and humiliate you at every chance they got. That's what the Eastern EU countries are doing to Russia. I don't like Russia that much, but i felt their pain.
帝国灭亡后，所有曾经被它统治过的国家都会一有机会就扑上来羞辱你。这就是东欧国家对俄罗斯所做的。我不太喜欢俄罗斯，但我感受到了他们的痛苦。
zhang simon
5小时前
We cannot judge that if China will won now, but for sure western is loosing……
我们无法判断中国现在是否会赢，但可以肯定的是，西方国家正在失去......
Rubén G
6小时前
Panelist here talking about subservience when eu is a de facto US vassal hahaha
当欧盟是美国事实上的附庸时，这里的小组成员在谈论顺从性，哈哈哈
CHILL PILL
5小时前
European medias keep saying this unbalanced relationship while they are allies of the United States lol
欧洲媒体一直在说这种不平衡的关系，而他们是美国的盟友。哈哈~~
samson kivuyo
5小时前
The West is like a jealousy ex, they get mad when they see you with a new partner
西方人就像嫉妒的前任，他们看到你有了新的伴侣就会生气。
Wei Wang
4小时前
Germany and America are equal partners.Germans can't even say who destroyed the Natural gas pipeline
德国和美国是平等的伙伴？德国人甚至不能说是谁破坏了天然气管道。
Trevor Sutherland
6小时前（修改过）
China and Russia interests do not currently contradict each other much, if at all. China can be seen to "win" today on the diplomatic front, as long as Russia "wins" on the military one.
中国和俄罗斯的利益目前没有太大的矛盾，如果有的话。只要俄罗斯在军事上 "获胜"，中国今天就可以被视为在外交方面 "获胜"。
Diogenes of Argolis
5小时前（修改过）
I don't think it would be an exaggeration to say that Russia is now a vassal state of China. It is not in any way an equal partnership, China is clearly the dominant partner in terms of Economic, Military, and Political power.
我不认为说俄罗斯现在是中国的附庸国是夸张的。这绝不是一种平等的伙伴关系，在经济、军事和政治力量方面，中国显然是主导的伙伴。
Kobe Basso
4小时前
It's just standard tactics of Western media, always sow dissent amongst the group they perceive to be threatening. Though this talk of "junior" is really schoolboy stuff, but sadly how Washington approaches diplomacy these days.
这只是西方媒体的标准策略，总是在他们认为具有威胁性的群体中散播异议。尽管这种关于“初级”的说法真的是小学生的玩意，但可悲的是，华盛顿如今如何处理外交事务？
Cin Peace
5小时前
That's the main difference between China and the West. China partners with other countries with respect. The West is always using a view that are you just a junior partner. Always looks down to partners who don't have big power.
这就是中国和西方的主要区别。中国在与其他国家合作时，是以尊重为前提的。西方国家总是用一种观点认为你只是一个小伙伴。总是看不起那些没有大权力的伙伴。
Country boy
4小时前
Resetting of world order is inevitable. Asia was the economic powerhouse for a millennia before Europeans “discovered” them. Only thing we need to make sure is transition is peaceful.
世界秩序的重新调整是不可避免的。在欧洲人 "发现"他们之前，亚洲已经是千年的经济强国了。我们唯一需要确保的是和平过渡。
Samson Yator
5小时前
I think the west doesn't really appreciate the impact of this alliance against them especially the us of a.europe has a choice but the us of a?
我认为西方并没有真正意识到这种联盟对他们的影响，尤其是美国。欧洲有选择，但美国有选择吗？
Amit Kumar
5小时前
We Indians are also with Russia, enough of western BS!
我们印度人也和俄罗斯在一起，受够了西方的胡说八道!
Raphael
5小时前
Why does every Western news cry because of Russia and China bond
为什么每个西方新闻都会因为中俄关系而哭泣？
sportsonwheelss
5小时前
Got to love these talking heads try to instigate a wedge between China and Russia by insisting China upper hand while Russia a subordinate party of the two.
我很喜欢这些说话的人试图在中国和俄罗斯之间挑拨离间，坚持认为中国占上风，而俄罗斯是两者的从属方。
T Bear
3小时前
At this moment I wish Russia and China have military alliance so US will think it harder before launching the DOLLAR war against China.
此时此刻，我希望俄罗斯和中国建立军事联盟，这样美国在对中国发动美元战争之前就会考虑得更多。
Bello Hadiza
6小时前
The multi polar world is what the majority of the whole world want and wish for , that would give nations various choices and reduces the dominance of the so-called west period .
多极世界是全世界大多数人所希望的，这将给各国带来各种选择，并减少所谓西方时期的主导地位。
Peter am
5小时前
The loser is Europe still clinging on to the USA as the balance of power shifts. Even the OPEC country's are moving closer to China and have no reason not too, democracy and human rights are no obstacle. The dollar is quickly losing importance for international trade Europe can either be dragged down with the USA or look for new markets where the money and trade will centre, why is no one talking about this change especially country's reliant on exports who will need somewhere to sell.
输家是欧洲，随着权力平衡的转移，欧洲仍然紧紧抓住美国不放。甚至欧佩克国家也在向中国靠拢，没有理由不这样做，民主和人权不是障碍。美元对国际贸易的重要性正在迅速下降，欧洲要么被美国拖垮，要么寻找新的市场，在那里资金和贸易将成为中心，为什么没有人谈论这种变化，特别是依赖出口的国家，他们需要有地方出售。
Richard
6小时前
No wonder Europe is buggered even the media landscape in Europe is invaded by American accented journalists.
难怪欧洲被搞得一团糟，甚至欧洲的媒体环境都被美国口音的记者入侵了。
Anban G
6小时前
An American colony talking abt russia being a junior partner is hilarious
一个美国殖民地谈论俄罗斯是一个小伙伴，这太搞笑了！
Cometrue9
6小时前（修改过）
At least a lot better than EU relationship with US, backstab on nordstream Pipe, 4 x more expensive gas, make Europe a mess
至少比欧盟与美国的关系要好得多，在北溪管道上暗算，4倍的天然气价格，让欧洲变得一团糟。
China won’t talk to Ukraine until meet with Spain & France next few weeks. China is showing respect to Europe. Too bad Europe cannot make it own decision until it has the approval from boss in nato
中国不会跟乌克兰谈，直到下几周跟西班牙和法国见面。中国在向欧洲表示尊重。 遗憾的是，欧洲在得到北约老大的批准之前，无法做出自己的决定。 |
